You mentioned you are an Iranian citizen, and you left in 2009, right?

Yes.

And that was in the midst of a very turbulent time, a very turbulent election. You’ve actually written this really gorgeous opera about that moment, called We the Innumerable. Is that opera in progress, or is it done?

It’s in progress, and I’m going to have the full workshop of it with OPERA America in June 2020.

Amazing. It’s extraordinary to hear an opera not only about such recent events, but written by someone who was there. I think that that’s such a rare and incredible thing to experience. Can you just say a little bit more about the opera and the inspiration for it?

The Green movement that came out of the 2009 election was really influential, not just for me but for a lot of Iranians my age, because we feel like we really didn’t, as a country, come together and bridge that divide after 2009. We didn’t really address that divide and mistrust that happened between the regime and the people, and so everything has just been getting worse since then. I always knew that this was a really important event that I experienced. And I wanted to write about it, but I wasn’t quite sure how, in what context, what kind of story I wanted to tell.

I had this in mind for a couple of years, and gradually characters came out of it. And with the help of my librettist, Lisa Flanagan, we were able to come up with a story that’s about, essentially. the importance of protecting truths, and protecting our memory, and making sure that in such crazy situations and intense misinformation, we can be courageous enough to say the truth and stick with it—and how that can really affect our lives.

How much of the opera is your personal experience of those events?

I’ve never been interrogated by someone, but I know so many of my close friends who have been. One of my family members wasn’t killed in the street at a protest, but I’ve known people who were just like me, and got killed. But at the same time, there are all these subtle things in the opera, about the story of the family of the woman, that are somehow very similar to my own experience, and the difficulties that my family has gone through. The story of the family of the character is definitely inspired by my own family.

I can’t wait to hear it. I’m so excited it’s being done and expanded. I promise we won’t spend all of our time investigating politics in this interview. But I can’t help but think about that when I think of your work, because you’re able to talk about these things and express them through music in such an effective and beautiful way, that doesn’t feel preachy or heavy-handed. And I think that’s the real power of your work. When I write opera, I find myself digging deep into the psychology of every character, and really inhabiting their emotional state—sometimes to a degree that is unhealthy and extreme. Can you relate to that? Is it sometimes painful for you to live inside the mind of these characters?

I would say definitely more in writing for voice – and especially in this opera, for sure – I’m just thinking about how the story works, and what’s right, and what should happen. But now that I’m going to commit this whole year to writing this opera and finishing it, I’m thinking every day about what kind of soundscape each of these characters is going to have, what subset of the instrumentation that I have is going to work for them, to really bring what’s right for these characters. And, as I said, it’s painful especially doing a lot of research on these events, going back and finding videos, because I would like to use a lot of sound clips and actual, real footage in my opera. So going into that research and getting these materials is really painful, reliving the experience. But at the same time, I feel very alive doing it. So at the same time that it’s painful, I get a real joy out of doing it.

Even your work that’s not expressly political has a dramatic narrative. I’m thinking of your orchestra piece Knell—which I think is just an excerpt online, but it’s gorgeous. Is your process different when you’re writing music that is more abstract and maybe doesn’t have words?

Well, yeah… I think when there are words involved, the words dictate a sort of narrative and form that you don’t necessarily have with instrumental music. My process usually tends to be that I am at the piano and I come up with the harmonies, and then I try to find textures that can work with these harmonies for the specific instrumentation that I’m writing for. The instruments themselves are very influential. Maybe even the people who are playing or commissioning the piece, and what kind of music they’ve already done, can also be a part of the piece that I’m going to write for them. So in that sense, it’s different.

Who were some of the composers that have paved the way for you? Or maybe not “paved the way,” but who do you think about, or have inspired your way of thinking about music.

Missy Mazzoli!

Aww! You didn’t have to say that—but it makes me very happy.

In college, definitely, getting to know your work through playing one of your piano pieces, Isabelle Eberhardt Dreams of Pianos, for my sophomore recital. That was my first interaction with new music, ever…

Really?

Yes! So it really opened up a whole world of understanding what is the new music scene, because before that, I was just constantly practicing piano. So knowing that those kinds of sounds are also new, and it’s okay to have triads and harmony that I like. So that really started me thinking seriously about composing.

Throughout college, my piano teacher, Lisa Weiss, was very influential. Even in our piano lessons, she was always talking about the approach of the composer, and also connecting me to a lot of musicians outside of school, and really believing in me. She wouldn’t be easy on me [laughs], but it was an amazing four years with her. And my main teachers, Laura Kaminsky and Sheila Silver, have both really done everything they could in making me find my voice as a composer, but also to find my way in the music world, and find a platform for myself to do what I can to present my music.